TMW #62: Pixar's Elio interview and Batman Begins revisited
Plus, a Dystopian Britain quiz!
Welcome to your Tuesday Wingman dispatch, and today we’re joined by the directors of Pixar’s Elio, Madeline Sharafian and Domee Shi. Plus, Matthew reflects on his changing attitude to Batman Begins (which has just turned 20), and there’s a quiz on Dystopian Britain (in movies, not current affairs). We’ll be back with a review round-up on Friday, featuring Elio, 28 Years Later and more.
Elio interview: Madeline Sharafian and Domee Shi
Pixar’s latest animated feature is beamed into cinemas this week. Elio tells the story of the eponymous kid, living with his aunt after the death of his parents. Isolated and lonely on Earth, he longs to be abducted by aliens, getting more than he bargained for when his wish comes true; whisked up to the Communiverse (effectively an interstellar UN), he’s mistaken for the leader of Earth. Elio began being directed by Adrian Molina (co-director of Coco), before he moved on and Madeline Sharafian (short Burrow) and Domee Shi (Turning Red) jointly took the reins as directors. The Movie Wingman sat down with Sharafian and Shi this week to discuss the process of taking over the film, working in Pixar’s famous Brain Trust, and more…
Character names are always important, and here Elio is also the title of the film. Where did the name come from?
Madeline Sharafian: Elio is an homage to the character Elliott from E.T. that was Adrian Molina's idea, and we loved that idea. [Elio’s] last name Solis means sun. And I think there's something really nice about the protagonist of our film being the sun. He's the centre of everything. I think those two names work together really well.
Domee Shi: When you watch the movie, it is about Elio, but also we're all Elio in some way, like even as we were making the story, I was connecting with him as a character and, hopefully, the idea is that everyone around the world connects with Elio and feels his struggle and his journey in some way.
You both took over from Adrian as directors on this film. That must have required a really different skill set as filmmakers and storytellers to come in when there's already been some groundwork laid as opposed to starting from scratch. What was that experience like?
Domee Shi: It was definitely challenging, but I think it was a fun challenge, because neither of us have ever directed a sci-fi movie before. The idea of inheriting this awesome chest of toys and trying to figure out how to tell the most compelling and emotional and entertaining story with them… it worked out a different part of our director brains, versus coming up with an idea from scratch. It's different, but it's just as challenging.
Madeline Sharafian: I think it helped us be less precious with things. We know that our job is to make a story that we feel moved by and we'll do anything that it takes to get there. It's terrifying, but also it's a little bit freeing because we have all the pieces and we'll move them around however they need to be.
Domee Shi: We have an objective eye, kind of.
On a similar note, there are so many fun ideas thrown that could potentially be spun off as the basis for an entire film. Was it difficult finding your way through that and deciding what your main story would be?
Madeline Sharafian: There are a lot of things that we had to leave behind, particularly because there's such a wide variety of aliens in the Communiverse and there's so many different characters that we used to spend a little bit more time on. There are characters that you only see in the background now that used to have whole sequences. And it's tough to cut scenes like that. There's always entertainment value there. But if they're not serving Elio's narrative arc, then they have to go [laughs]. But they still help inform the animators of the performances of the aliens. And I think you can feel that there's personality behind them, so it's not wasted effort. It just doesn't always end up in the final [film].
Did you have any exciting research trips? The SETI [search for extraterrestrial intelligence] Institute is thanked in the credits…
Domee Shi: I wish we got to go to space.
Madeline Sharafian: I know, sadly not. We were very busy in the writing room for a lot of the time, but luckily SETI came to Pixar to talk to us a little bit, and they gave us this whole presentation. And I remember that I was actually most inspired by the presenter, this person who had this hopeful curiosity about space and what could be out there. And that almost more than anything made its way to the film with Elio's characterisation, the way that looking up at the stars can make a character feel hopeful.
You're both part of Pixar's Senior Creative Team, colloquially known as the Brain Trust. What’s it like being a part of that?
Domee Shi: In some way it really helped us jump onto Elio so quickly because we have been following it from conception through every iteration, being invited to Brain Trust screenings and the note sessions. That's a unique thing about Pixar; the directors all show each other versions of their movies for notes, for feedback. There is this kind of creative filmmaking community where we're all trying to treat each other like we're film-school classmates, just trying to help each other out on our projects.
I feel like I learn so much being in those rooms. That's how I was first introduced to this project, being invited to those initial Brain Trust meetings. I remember being so amazed at this concept, and just seeing the early designs for the Communiverse. [I thought], ‘This is gonna be such an amazing film.’ And who knew that we would be co-directing it. [laughs]
Madeline Sharafian: The Brain Trusts are great because you get to watch some of the best filmmakers at Pixar work through problems right in front of you. Pete Docter [Pixar’s chief creative officer] is always there. Right now Andrew Stanton and Lee Unkrich are at Pixar. And I do think you learn a lot about how to solve an issue by watching people who've done it many times before do it right in front of you.
There's a little ‘DOMAD’ branded radio in the film, referencing your partnership. How do you split the workload when you're both directing?
Madeline Sharafian: Sometimes there's DOMAD and sometimes there's Do... and Mad separately [laughs]. For all the big story decisions, for all the rewriting and script reviews, we're always together. But there are times when, just due to the schedule, we have to split off. Especially in editorial where maybe Domee would take three sequences and I would take three sequences. We go off on our own for a few hours. And then we come back and we review them together and feel out the scenes, give each other notes, and sometimes even we swap them. 'OK, your turn, you try it.' But at the end of the day, everything has to come back to one vision and one guiding light. So we have to make sure that we're always in agreement of where we're trying to go.
As two experts in animation, what do you make of the trend of live-action adaptations of animated films that seem to be dominating at the moment?
Madeline Sharafian: I like them when they add something that maybe... I love the live-action Cinderella. I thought that the costume design was beautiful
Domee Shi: And they added depth to the characters too.
Madeline Sharafian: Yeah. The character of Cinderella stayed true to who she was in the original, but had a little bit more going on.
Domee Shi: And the stepmom too.
Madeline Sharafian: Oh my God. Cate Blanchett! Great.
Domee Shi: I think if done right, there are opportunities to kind of expand on the world and flesh out characters that were kind of glossed over in the original version. But, you know, we're from animation. We're animation fans. We're always gonna be more pro-animation than anything else.
Madeline Sharafian: I would probably still like the original the best.
Madeline’s short film, Burrow, had a 2D style. Would Pixar ever make a whole feature in that kind of style?
Madeline Sharafian: I think what makes Pixar so special is the marriage of technology and creative. I think if we were to do something in a style that looked a little bit more like 2D, it would be nice to take that to the next level, not just backwards to 2D but to some next look, next new thing. We always want to be innovating and our tech teams are very skilled and they want to be a big part of the process and we need to bring them along for the ride. So I think it would end up being something different, something new.
Domee Shi: When Pete Docter talks about it - I mean, he's a fan of 2D animation too - but his approach to the look of any movie is, 'How does it support the story?' So I feel like if we were to ever explore something in a more stylistic way, it'd have to be essential to telling that specific story.
And actually, we just released some images from [Luca director] Enrico Casarosa's upcoming movie, Gatto. And I'm so excited about that movie and the look of it really compliments the setting of Venice, the Italian kind of culture and vibe, so well. I think it's gonna be beautiful. (Matt Maytum)
Elio opens in cinemas on 20 June.
Starting over with Batman Begins
One Wingman recalls how his critical faculties fell, but then he learned to pick them up…
This week marks the 20th anniversary of Christopher Nolan’s Batman Begins. It also marks the 20th anniversary of me being a tool, albeit not the kind you’d find in Batman’s utility belt. My first viewing of Nolan’s movie left me in a mood that was, if not exactly black, then certainly very, very dark grey.
Clearly, I couldn’t tell my art from my elbow, though I would argue there were extenuating circumstances: a late-evening, late-starting screening that at times felt like we were in the telly room at Arkham Asylum. Number-one annoyance was being seated near an apparent throuple vigorously explaining plot points and references to each other, culminating in a Question Time-level debate over the Joker-card reveal at the end.
By this point I was so weary that the green-haired sequel tease really felt like it was laughing in my face. The Joker? Again? Are we going to have to slog through his origin story as well? It compounded one of my main issues with the film per se, that it was yet another reset after the revolving Bat-door of the 90s, where we’d had three different Batmen in the space of five years.
And with those earlier movies still fresh in the memory (or stale, if we’re talking Batman & Robin), Nolan’s vision simply felt too grounded, too - dare I say it - po-faced by comparison. I missed Burton’s baroque stylings and funhouse flourishes (like Danny DeVito’s giant rubber ducky of doom). The wait for Christian Bale to suit up felt so long, so withheld, that I almost longed for Joel Schumacher to poke me in the eye with a UV-painted Bat-nipple.
Going back to Begins circa The Dark Knight, I did the biggest 180 since realising that Police Academy was not, in fact, the sophisticated comedy masterpiece I had seen when I was 12. This time I saw that, duh, it’s the groundedness that makes Nolan’s film fly; the muted colours, lack of pixels and emphasis on the man behind the mask - and the precise reasons he wears it - give the story more weight than a Tumbler carrying home the weekly shop. As for ‘po-faced’... how did I miss the drollery in the performances by Liam Neeson, Morgan Freeman and Christian Bale when he’s doing his Bruce Wayne: Partyman bits? I blame that throuple, nattering on about “that bloke from The Full Monty”.
So, happy anniversary, Batman Begins - now my favourite Bat-flick, not to mention Nolan movie. Sorry for not getting it the first time round, Chris; I promise I’ll remember this lesson when I watch The Odyssey and won’t gripe that it’s not as much of a giggle as Troy. (Matthew Leyland)
The Wingman Quiz: Dystopian Britain
Ready yourself for apoca-shocker sequel 28 Years Later… not by building a bunker and stocking up on loo roll but by testing your knowledge of other domestic nightmares. Scroll down for the answers…
Before becoming a full-time survivalist, what is Jim’s (Cillian Murphy) job in 28 Days Later…?
a) Taxi driver b) bicycle courier c) chef d) London tour guide
As well as having an exec-producer credit, which star also cameoed in The End We Start From?
a) Idris Elba b) Tom Hardy c) Benedict Cumberbatch d) Chiwetel Ejiofor
In Neil Marshall’s virus actioner Doomsday, a 30-foot barrier is built around which quarantined area?
a) Scotland b) Wales c) London d) the Houses of Parliament
Which of these Queen songs features in Shaun of the Dead?
a) ‘Another One Bites the Dust’ b) ‘You’re My Best Friend’ c) ‘We Are the Champions’ d) ‘I Want to Break Free’
Children of Men is based on a novel by which author?
a) Kazuo Ishiguro b) Margaret Atwood c) P.D. James d) Roger Hargreaves
Quiz Answers
b) bicycle courier
c) Benedict Cumberbatch
a) Scotland
b) ‘You’re My Best Friend’
c) P.D. James
It was Fellowship for me - didn't get it on first viewing but a dvd rewatch before Two Towers was released changed everything