Bonus Wingman: Lost Ladies interview

Director Kiran Rao, and producers Aamir Khan and Jyoti Deshpande discuss India’s Oscar-hopeful

Welcome to a special edition of The Movie Wingman!

Earlier this week I hosted the post-BAFTA-screening Q&A for a delightful film called Lost Ladies (also known as Laapataa Ladies). If the film has passed you by, it’s well worth a watch. A smart satire about an accidental bride swap in rural India, it’s both a breezy comedy of errors and a sincerely moving reflection on outdated social structures. Best of all it’s on Netflix, so chances are you can watch at the click of a button.

Selected as India’s entry for Best International Feature Film at the 97th Academy Awards, in the face of stiff competition from Payal Kapadia’s acclaimed drama All We Imagine as Light, if Lost Ladies makes the cut later this month it will be the first Indian film nominated in the category since 2001 classic Lagaan - a staggering fact given the size and significance of the Indian film industry.

Prior to the BAFTA screening I got to spend a little time with director Kiran Rao, and producers Aamir Khan and Jyoti Deshpande to pick their brains about the film, the challenges of getting a movie with no marquee stars noticed around the world, and Khan’s memories of attending the Oscars with Lagaan over two decades ago. Khan, if you don’t know, is one of India’s biggest stars. His films were my gateway into South Asian cinema, and while he stays behind the camera as a producer here, Lost Ladies shares his disposition towards entertaining, socially progressive stories.

It was such a fascinating chat that we’re bringing it to you as an extra bonus edition of The Movie Wingman. If you like this kind of thing let us know - interviews were our bread and butter at Total Film, and we’re well-equipped to bring you more. Next week we return to regularly scheduled programming, as our review of the year continues apace on Tuesday, with the 15th - 11th placed entries revealed. See you then, and be sure to check out Lost Ladies on Netflix.

Jordan

Aamir Khan, Kiran Rao and Jyoti Deshpande in London to discuss Lost Ladies (Credit: Mediahouse Global)

The Movie Wingman: Aamir, you discovered the script in 2018. Six years later it’s something you're still travelling the world to advocate for. What did you see in that script then that you thought might resonate these many years later?

Aamir Khan: Well, I really loved the story. There were so many things in there which touched me. I think the story of both the girls really moved me. And I loved the potential for humour. The story was talking about such important issues, but in a way that it was a great metaphor also. So I kind of fell in love with it, and I was really keen to make it.

First, I reached out to Biplab [Goswami, original story writer], to see if he was happy to sell the rights. But when I read it the first time, I have to say that I thought of Kiran [Rao] straight away to direct the film. I felt she would really bring out the satire, the humour and the characters really well. And I think Kiran's strength is her honesty towards the story, the moment and the characters. And that is something I felt was really needed for this. So I was so glad that she got excited with the script and took it forward and added to the script. And finally the film that I saw, I was quite amazed with how she had brought onto the screen what was on paper. It really came alive for me.

Kiran, does Aamir send you scripts often, or is it enough of a rarity that you thought, ‘I should pay close attention to this’?

Kiran Rao: He didn't actually send me the script first. He gave me sort of a one-line idea of the story. And it piqued my curiosity, this story of two girls - one going to the wrong house, the other being left behind at the station - that I was really keen to read it. And he'd never really done that before…

AK: Because you write your own scripts usually. She's got about eight or 10 scripts that she's worked on to different extents.

KR: I had been writing a lot of stuff myself. So because I was working on a bunch of things I would take various drafts to him. But he hadn't really ever said that with the view to asking if I would be interested in directing something. I think he did feel that I was right for it. I'm so glad he did.

Kiran, this is your first film since Dhobi Ghat in 2010. Why did it feel right to return with Lost Ladies?

KR: As soon as I heard the story I completely fell in love with it. I thought of all the things that could happen along this journey for these two girls. It just captivated me. This voyage kind of storytelling is so exciting because at the end of the adventure, there's always discovery. There's, in this case, discovery about themselves, about what it means to be a woman. And so many revelations they could have as a result. So I thought of all the things that we could do with it and all the ideas we could explore.

Tonally, it's very different from your previous film - a comedic satire as opposed to a more naturalistic romantic drama. Was that part of what made it exciting?

Yes, absolutely. I actually really love comedy and when I heard the one line it just obviously was so ripe for satire, because it is such an outlandish idea - the fact that two girls, because of a veil, end up going to the wrong place. And being lost, in their case, actually ends up being a good thing. Satire and humour are really great tools to explore things that are uncomfortable or unpleasant, and allows us to soften people and disarm them before we slide the knife in!

Jyoti, when did you get involved, and why did you want to throw the weight of your production company, Jio Studios, behind the film?

Jyoti Deshpande: Actually, they had gone ahead and made the film during COVID! Aamir and I go back very many decades, not to give away our age at all. He screened the film for me and as soon as I saw it I knew it was a fantastic film and we all immediately agreed that this was a film that we should take to the theatres, because it's special. You know, [Kiran] coming out of hiatus, [Aamir] finding that script, me coming on board... there's a little bit of magic beneath all the hard work and rigour. It took down so many big films that were launched alongside it. I think there is a little bit of divine intervention and the universe conspiring to give this film momentum.

AK: Jyoti comes with a lot of drive and she's a big strength to have on the team. And so when she liked the film and said: ‘This has to come out in theatres’, that gave us a lot of confidence and strength. Because when you're making a film and you're showing it to someone for the first time you don't know how it's going to be received. So Jyoti's confidence in the film helped us a lot.

KR: Her determination to take it to a world audience, it’s given us wings.

Kiran, it's a culturally specific story but the themes are universal. Did you consider the fact that this film had the potential to resonate with a global audience while making it?

KR: Honestly, when I was making it, I didn't give it any specific thought. I just wanted to be true to the story. And I feel all stories that touch something human in us are stories that you can relate to from any part of the world. So I just tried to be quite honest to the material. But I think that's actually what works for it. The fact that it is quite a simple story, in some ways. But it speaks to many struggles and issues that women face, and sometimes don't even acknowledge that they have faced, or have seen women around them face.

That's what the strength of the film is: that it becomes something quite relatable and universal. I really hope that women and men all over the world are able to take away the fact that there is a way to be optimistic and inclusive about our future. We have to work together. It's very important, not just sisterhood and female solidarity, but male allyship in order to take down the patriarchy. And women especially, I hope, can find a lot of optimism in the fact that we can and must find space for ourselves and our desires and our dreams.

Aamir, it's 22 years since you were at the Oscars with Lagaan, a film you produced and starred in. Are there any memories from that evening that have stuck with you over the years?

AK: Yeah. One of the memories is: I know exactly what it feels like when your category is announced and you don't win! I know exactly how that feels. I also know how it feels to be nominated because when we went to LA after we were nominated people would treat us like we won, because over there being nominated is as good as winning. You’ve made it to the top five, out of 80-odd films, each one the best from their country.

The other memory I have is when the event was over and we were filing out, a good 30 to 40 people came to us. None of whom I knew from before. And they introduced themselves and said: ‘We are members and we voted for your film. And we are so disappointed it didn't win.’ So a good 30, 40, 50 members, I mean just people who were walking out with us, told us that. And that made us feel so nice that, actually, there were a lot of members who had voted for us. I guess more had voted for the other film! But that made us feel nice. And I myself thought that No Man's Land was a great film. In fact, all the films that year were really remarkable and any one of them could have won.

JD: Not before time, not before your destiny...

AK: Actually it will be lovely if a woman holds the [Best International Feature Film] Oscar for India. And the BAFTA for that matter.

JD: I have manifested that for Kiran, I have manifested it!

KR: Well, Kartiki [Gonsalves] and Guneet [Monga Kapoor] have held it before [winning Best Documentary Short Subject in 2023 for The Elephant Whisperers], so I'm delighted that we've had one win for India after a very, very long time. Honestly, for a film-mad country, nothing could be better.

Kiran, how did it feel to get the call telling you that Lost Ladies was India's chosen film?

KR: Initially disbelief. But after that a great deal of delight. And, honestly, after a little while the delight faded into a little bit of worry, bewilderment and panic! It was great, but it's just the start. Within India, to be India's submission is in itself winning an Oscar. Because we have so many good films made every year, so it felt very much like an honour, and it still does. It's an opportunity to take your cinema to the rest of the world and that's what we're trying to do, the best we can.

JD: Beneath this calm exterior is a very tenacious woman.

KR: Yeah, I think most women have to be!

Pratibha Ranta as Jaya in Lost Ladies (Credit: Mediahouse Global)

South Asian movies are a fixture in UK cinemas, but they’re predominantly seen by a specialist audience. Jyoti, how important are potential awards for getting audiences who don’t typically watch Indian cinema to take a chance on a film like Lost Ladies?

JD: Awards are not an end in itself. It’s not like you tell stories to win an award. But awards are there to encourage storytellers to take stories beyond their region. When a film wins at BAFTA or wins at the Academy Awards, that film then begins to travel to many more countries than it would have regularly travelled. So we'll take an Indian movie and when we theatrically release it abroad, we have a very different South Asian target group that we go to theatrically. So you have [cinemas like] Cineworld Feltham, and the areas where South Asians tend to cluster. So it's a very narrow, targeted release and you will probably not even hear about it. So awards are important to amplify the voices from our country and to democratise storytelling.

The film is also on Netflix, arguably the biggest platform for movies in the world. How has that helped?

JD: During COVID people started consuming all kinds of content, sitting at home. We have 27 different languages in our country. And typical silos got broken. When we had exhausted our lot, we were watching Korean films, Spanish films. So, I think, the combination of COVID and streaming broadened and opened people's minds all over the world.

However, the algorithms that streaming platforms run mean if you've never watched an Indian film ever in your life on the platform, it's unlikely to display that such a film exists. So I would encourage streamers to sometimes sidestep their algorithm and champion select movies that have legs to crossover, so that people from other cultures can discover it a little bit more easily. It has to make its way to that carousel, which is the main real estate. If it doesn't show up on your carousel, it's available, but not really available.

KR: I wish they had something like a Vimeo Picks, where it’s a little bit like a recommendation.

JD: Stories like ours will have to be discovered. A little bit of push would help. It's not a complaint, but it's a suggestion.

Kiran, are you working on anything else at the moment? And has Aamir sent you any of the scripts recently?

KR: Well, he hasn't sent me anything. And that is a complaint, not a suggestion! But I'm working on a bunch of things I've been writing for those 13 years since Dhobi Ghat. One is kind of a supernatural film that I'm very excited about. The other is a kind of drama-comedy that Aamir is probably going to produce. We have a few more, but everything is a work in progress and you never know what will finally see the light of day first.

JD: I can guarantee you she won't take another 14 years, or I'll bite your head off.

Lost Ladies (aka Laapataa Ladies) is currently streaming on Netflix.